Warfarin substitute in cardiomyopathy

This forum is intended for international users to help them with the treatment of cardiomyopathy or heart failure.
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Panayiota
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Warfarin substitute in cardiomyopathy

Bericht door Panayiota » zo mei 28, 2006 11:32 pm

I need to check whether you know a way to replace or reduce Warfarin with vitamin C, E and Fish oils.

I don't have enough confidence to do this yet. My husband had cardiomyopathy last year ejection fraction 20%. After he was admited to hospital he was prescribed Ramopril, Digoxin, Sotalol, diuretics and Warfarin. He also takes Magnesium citrate, Multvitamins with minerals, Taurine, Fish oils and Co enzyme Q10 and zinc and antioxidants.
9 months later his ejection fraction is up to 45 % and the doctor removed the diuretics. We are keen to reduce or substitute Warfarin. We will appreciate advise on the subject.

panayiota
Regards,

Panayiota

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Marion
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Bericht door Marion » ma mei 29, 2006 1:51 am

Hi Panayiota,

I see you could make it to start your new message thread in this forum, congratulations :lol:

It is already very good your husband get his Ejection fraction from 20 to 45% in just 9 month time! :lol:
Panayiota schreef: I need to check whether you know a way to replace or reduce Warfarin with vitamin C, E and Fish oils.
Warfarin is a medicine that prevents blood clotting (coagulating). It is called an anticoagulant or "blood thinner". so it is used to prevent blood clots from forming or growing larger.

I also have Cardiomyopathy (ejection fraction 31%) and I get for the same reason Acenocoumarol also a “blood thinner”.
My doctor told me that this will protect me for having a brain- or heartattack.
The reason for this possebilety is that my heart is not abel to empty itself enouf and that makes the risk of blood clotting bigger.

Is there a special reason your husband want to stop the Warfarin?

Corrij just came back from a little vacation, so I asume she will answer your question about the vitamin C, E and Fish oils.
I’m almost sure that these supplements are not abel to replace the Warfarin becouse they don’t have any invluence of the clood clotting, but I will let give the further details to Corrij.

I hope she can give you satisfied advise to you so your husband can get his EJF to 60% :P

(when you want to answer, you can click on the oval with "nieuw antwoord" :wink: )

Best Wishes,
Groetjes Marion :P

Panayiota
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Warfarin substitute in cardiomyopathy

Bericht door Panayiota » ma mei 29, 2006 12:21 pm

Thanks for your reply and your help in getting me on the Forum.

As a training nutritional therapist the aim is to have a drug free or as close to drug free treatment as possible. My husband is not too happy in taking the warfarin. Sometimes the healthier he eats (many salads etc actually make the need for warfarin higher, bacauce of their vitamin K content). This compromises the healthier options in food choices.

Prior to his cardiomyopathy he suffered from high BP. When he had an angiogramme he was found to have ectatic arteries. Little is known about this condition. Does anyone have much knowledge of this condition whether it was an outcome of the untreated high BP or the ectatic arteries contributed to the rise of the BP.

Panayiota
Regards,

Panayiota

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Marion
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Bericht door Marion » ma mei 29, 2006 1:52 pm

Hi Panayiota,

I agree with the wish to use as little as possible of all medication we get and the idea to have a complete drug free treatment is also above on my list. :wink:

It is correct that food with a higher doses of vitamin K lower your INR so you have to use more warfarin.
I learned from what we call “Trombosedienst”, where I get instructions of checking my own INR every two weeks, that food is not the big problem.
When he eats round about the same vegetables every day, his INR will not change to much.
What is very important to look if he is not taking multivitamins or any other supplements with vitamin K in it.
That was a big mistake I made so it was for me very difficult to get my INR on a good level. :evil:

For further advises it is better if you answer the questions you find in the first message of this link:
http://www.candida-fibromyalgie-hypogly ... php?t=5999
we get a better view of the condition of your husband.
Special attention for the question about the blood pressure, please give the BP before using the medication and after.
Groetjes Marion :P

Corrij (therapeut)
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Bericht door Corrij (therapeut) » ma mei 29, 2006 5:45 pm

Hello Panayiota,

First of all, welcome to this forum.
Your question about Warfarin isn't that easy to answer.
There is no prescription for this in The Netherlands, it's quite controversial.
I don't know how much of it your husband uses? I wouldn't take it onto yourself to just stop or take less.
It's true that vitamin E is a natural blood thinner, but if it is enough to reduce your medicine I don't really know.
Patients in Holland who use blood thinners can determine their own INR value by pricking themselves and adjusting their medicine if necessary.
I don't know if you can do that as well.
I would advise you to talk to your doctor and ask if he can replace Warfarin by another medicine.

Do you want more help from me with following the protocol?
Just let me know.

Regards,
Corrij
Those who do not have enough time for good health,
will not have good health for enough time.

Corrij (therapeut)
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Bericht door Corrij (therapeut) » ma mei 29, 2006 10:02 pm

Hello Panayiota,

If I understand you correctly you're talking about dilation of a blood vessel, an aneurism?
This happens imperceptible and gradual. It can happen in any artery of the body but it usually happens in the aorta.
In an aneurism the blood stream is disturbed, the blood whirls around in the local dilation and that causes a blood clot in the aneurism
One of the most important causes of aneurisms is atherosclerosis which in turn can be caused by high blood pressure, diabetics and a too high cholesterol.

If your husband had high blood pressure for a long time, then that could be the cause.

Regards,
Corrij
Those who do not have enough time for good health,
will not have good health for enough time.

Panayiota
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Lid geworden op: do mei 18, 2006 3:33 pm
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WARFARIN SUBSTITUDE

Bericht door Panayiota » za jul 08, 2006 1:19 am

Dear Corrij,

I seem to be unable to get on the forum for a month. Willy put me back on.
The reason warfarin was first administered was when my husband developed atrial fibrilation and arrhythmia as well as dilated cardiomyopathy which is now greatly improved.EF 45% now.

He does not have an aeurism, he is given warfarin becauce of the arrhythmia, as the left heart chamber does not empty on time before the next beat comes hence some stale blood could stay around causing thrombus. This was the reason given by the cardiologist

Panayiota
Regards,

Panayiota

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