Cardiomyopathy or myocarditis from virus

This forum is intended for international users to help them with the treatment of cardiomyopathy or heart failure.
diane1
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Berichtdoor diane1 » Vr Feb 01, 2008 12:01 am

Hi Corrij,
Thanks for the info.
I am still wondering about the D-Ribose. If it's something you can explain, can you tell me what are your criteria for deciding if a person should take D-Ribose or not. And what are the typical doses?

Diane

Willy
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Berichtdoor Willy » Zo Feb 03, 2008 10:25 pm

According to scientific articles it gives just an extra push, see

http://cardiomyopathy-heart-failure.pil ... ure.23.php
Met vriendelijke groeten,

Willy Witsel

Ben je blij met ons gratis advies doe dan
een tweet of een like bovenin deze forumpagina

Corrij (therapeut)
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Berichtdoor Corrij (therapeut) » Di Okt 07, 2008 5:04 pm

Hi Diane,

Can you give me a little update?
How are you doing?

greetings,
Corrij
Those who do not have enough time for good health,
will not have good health for enough time.

diane1
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Berichtdoor diane1 » Ma Okt 20, 2008 11:45 pm

Hello Corrij,

Long time no contact!

Well, I wish I could say I was all better, but that's not the case. I think my condition is much the same as 6-9 months ago. If there is any improvement, it is very slight. Sometimes I seem to have energy to make it through the day, but other times I change my mind. Physically I am still quite limited.
Maybe one thing that might be better is that I don't feel my heart beating all the time anymore; just part of the time am I really aware of it and can feel that it doesn't beat right. I would like to think that that's an indication that the heart is less enlarged, but I don't know. Maybe I am just used to the feeling now and can block it out sometimes.

Something that has me concerned lately is that from time to time I get pains or discomfort below the left shoulder, above the heart. I have seen it is an indication of heart disease, but well, that isn't news to me at this point! I wonder though what causes it and should I be worried about it.

I won't see my local doctor here until next March. He considers my condition "stable" and doesn't expect that I will ever be better than this. But this is the same doctor that thought I was totally crazy when I said long term usage of pharmaceuticals was harmful! ;-)

Regards,
Diane

Willy
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Berichtdoor Willy » Di Okt 21, 2008 10:39 am

Which supplements do you take? What's the brand name and what is the dosis per day?
Met vriendelijke groeten,

Willy Witsel

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een tweet of een like bovenin deze forumpagina

diane1
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Berichtdoor diane1 » Di Okt 21, 2008 10:34 pm

hoi,
wow, do you mean a list of absolutely everything i'm taking? that could take awhile.....
diane

Willy
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Berichtdoor Willy » Wo Okt 22, 2008 10:54 am

Only the supplements from our CMP protocol
Met vriendelijke groeten,

Willy Witsel

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Corrij (therapeut)
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Berichtdoor Corrij (therapeut) » Vr Okt 24, 2008 4:20 pm

Hi Diane,

Sorry for my late reaction but I was not able to write something down, because of a bursitis on my right shoulder.
It`s sad to hear your not feeling better, and I want to know also what supplements your taking at this moments and the amounts.

I think that you must visit your doctor and tell him about your discomfort below the shoulder, because it might been another thing what cause this.It can be neurologic,or muscles.
I know it is a sympton of angina or a heart attack but it could be something else.Take the worries away and go see your doctor.

greetings,
Corrij
Those who do not have enough time for good health,

will not have good health for enough time.

diane1
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Berichtdoor diane1 » Ma Okt 27, 2008 1:50 am

Hi Corrij,
Sorry to hear you are having aches and pains of your own!

The overview of my supplements is the following:
CoQ10 - equivalent of 200mg
L-carnitine & Acetyl L-carnitine 1500
Taurine 1500
Multivitamin
Vit C 2000-3000
MSM usually 2000
Magnesium 500
Potassium 4g
ALA 200
Vit E 575-757iu
Omega 3 1000

The complete breakdown I will send in an attachment.

Diane

Corrij (therapeut)
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Berichtdoor Corrij (therapeut) » Ma Okt 27, 2008 8:28 pm

Hello Diane,

What kind of magnesium do you use?
The best is the magnesium aspartate.

I know its very difficult for you to buy the supplements, but I want to add some others.

Selenium 1x200 mg a day
Vitamin D3 3x5mcg a day
D-Ribose 12 gram a day

D-Ribose improves diastolic function and quality of life in congestive heart failure patients: a prospective feasibility study.Omran H, Illien S, MacCarter D, St Cyr J, Luderitz B.
Department of Medicine-Cardiology, University of Bonn, Sigmund-Freud-Street 25, D-53105, Bonn, Germany. omran@uni-bonn.de

Patients with chronic coronary heart disease often suffer from congestive heart failure (CHF) despite multiple drug therapies. D-Ribose has been shown in animal models to improve cardiac energy metabolism and function following ischaemia. This was a prospective, double blind, randomized, crossover design study, to assess the effect of oral D-ribose supplementation on cardiac hemodynamics and quality of life in 15 patients with chronic coronary artery disease and CHF. The study consisted of two treatment periods of 3 weeks, during which either oral D-ribose or placebo was administered followed by a 1-week wash out period, and then administration of the other supplement. Assessment of myocardial functional parameters by echocardiography, quality of life using the SF-36 questionnaire and functional capacity using cycle ergometer testing was performed. The administration of D-ribose resulted in an enhancement of atrial contribution to left ventricular filling (40+/-11 vs. 45+/-9%, P=0.02), a smaller left atrial dimension (54+/-20 vs. 47+/-18 ml, P=0.02) and a shortened E wave deceleration (235+/-64 vs. 196+/-42, P=0.002) by echocardiography. Further, D-ribose also demonstrated a significant improvement of the patient's quality of life (417+/-118 vs. 467+/-128, P< or =0.01). In comparison, placebo did not result in any significant echocardiographic changes or in quality of life. This feasibility study in patients with coronary artery disease in CHF revealed the beneficial effects of D-ribose by improving diastolic functional parameters and enhancing quality of life.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... med_docsum

The potassium, do you realy take 4 gram a day?

greetings,
Corrij
Those who do not have enough time for good health,

will not have good health for enough time.

diane1
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Berichtdoor diane1 » Do Okt 30, 2008 1:45 am

Hello,

I take Magnesium Hydroxide, which is supposed to be ok. I researched all the Magnesium options last autumn, but simply reducing the dosage helped. I tried recently to increase it again, but the same problem came back. I'll investigate the Aspartate option.

There is 200 mcg of Selenium in my multivitamin, or that's what it says on the bottle anyway.

I can increase the Vitamin D. In the summer I sit in the sun a lot, but of course we don't get much sunlight up here in the Arctic in the winter. Is it ok to take a lot of Vit D without also taking calcium? I am always nervous about taking calcium supplements because I have twice had kidney stones. Not nice!

Last spring I asked you about the D-Ribose and at that time you didn't tell me to take the D-Ribose so I didn't buy any. I don't know if I can get that here or if it's affordable, so I will look into it when I go to the states again at the start of 2009.

Yes I take 4g of potassium. I think it's odd that it doesn't show up in any blood tests, my levels pretty much have stayed the same since the beginning of this story. Any ideas what is going on there? I don't eat any of the things that normally deplete potassium in the body. Strange. May be something to do with the kidney function?

Regards,
Diane

Corrij (therapeut)
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Berichtdoor Corrij (therapeut) » Do Okt 30, 2008 11:19 am

Hello Diane,

About the calcium and the kidneystones,

Can calcium supplements promote kidney stones? It's unlikely, according to some new research that looked at the relationship between recommended amounts of calcium and the likelihood of getting kidney stones. In fact, it appears that just the opposite is true. It seems that calcium binds with oxalate to form calcium oxalate in the intestine and prevents much of it from being absorbed into the body.

This is good news because restricting calcium intake has been a mainstay of therapy in preventing stone formation. Seventy-five percent of kidney stones are formed from oxalates found abundantly in some plant foods. Beets, rhubarb, peanuts and chocolate and cocoa are especially high in oxalates. Other good sources are dark green leafy vegetables like spinach, collards and Swiss chard, legumes, tea, and berries.

Lowering calcium intake in an effort to prevent kidney stones increases a person's risk for osteoporosis. In fact, taking in more calcium will bind with most of the dietary oxalates preventing them from getting in the body in the first place. But most of the oxalates to be excreted are made inside the body and are not part of the food intake.

Some individuals are known to be stone-formers in that they make kidney stones more readily than others. In a new study, one of the questions was to see if there were differences between the forms of calcium supplements used. Both calcium carbonate and calcium citrate malate were equally effective in binding with the oxalates. Also the most effective amount was 200 and 300 milligrams (mg) of calcium as compared to only 100 mg. Calcium carbonate is present in most of the tablets available. Calcium citrate malate is the form added to orange juice and is the form most easily absorbed. Also calcium with a meal is more readily absorbed than when it is taken between meals.

This research suggests that getting ample amounts of calcium helps prevent kidney stones and that it is better to take the calcium supplement with meals rather than between meals in order to inhibit oxalate absorption. However, it is best to check with your physician about what is best for you because there may be other reasons why between-meal calcium is recommended in your case.

Potassium is important to heart function. your Small changes in potassium levels can have a big effect on the activity of nerves and muscles, especially the heart. Low levels of potassium cause increased heart muscle activity, which can lead to an irregular heartbeat. High levels cause decreased heart muscle activity. Either situation can lead to a heart attack in some cases.

What is your potassium level?The normal range is 3.7 to 5.2 mEq/L.


Low levels of potassium (hypokalemia) may be due to:

Chronic diarrhea or use of laxatives
Cushing syndrome (rare)
Diuretics
Hyperaldosteronism
Hypokalemic periodic paralysis
Not enough potassium in the diet
Renal artery stenosis
Renal tubular acidosis (rare)
Vomiting

What happen if you stop taking the potassium?

greetings,
Corrij
Those who do not have enough time for good health,

will not have good health for enough time.

diane1
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Berichtdoor diane1 » Vr Okt 31, 2008 1:12 am

Hi,

Thanks for the information about calcium and kidney stones, I have never really researched it.

My potassium level I think has never really gone much above 4.1. it seems to stay in the 3.9 - 4.1 range, even while taking this large amount of supplements. My diarrhea is under control these days, so I shouldn't be losing so much that way. When I was in the hospital in the beginning, the only thing they noticed about me that wasn't normal, other than the heart problem of course, was that the potassium level was a bit low. That's why I wonder if there is not some bigger problem with my body processing potassium. I do love salt, but I think I didn't eat excessive amounts before, and now I have cut back a lot, so that shouldn't be the cause of making the potassium out of balance.

I will definitely ask the doctor here why my levels don't go up even when I take so much. I have a feeling I will have to push him to take the matter seriously! ;-)

Diane

Corrij (therapeut)
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Berichtdoor Corrij (therapeut) » Vr Okt 31, 2008 4:59 pm

Hi Diane,

Potassium is a mineral that helps the kidneys function normally. It also plays a key role in cardiac, skeletal, and smooth muscle contraction, making it an important nutrient for normal heart, digestive, and muscular function. A diet high in potassium from fruits, vegetables, and legumes is generally recommended for optimum heart health.

Having too much potassium in the blood is called hyperkalemia and having too little in the blood is known as hypokalemia. Proper balance of potassium in the body depends on sodium. Therefore, excessive use of sodium may deplete the body's stores of potassium. Other conditions that can cause potassium deficiency include diarrhea, vomiting, excessive sweating, malnutrition, and use of diuretics. In addition, coffee and alcohol can increase the amount of potassium excreted in the urine. Adequate amounts of magnesium are also needed to maintain normal levels of potassium.

For most people, a healthy diet rich in vegetables and fruits provides all of the potassium needed. The elderly are at high risk for developing hyperkalemia due to decreased kidney function that often occurs as one ages. Older people should be careful when taking medication that may further affect potassium levels in the body, such as nonsteroidal anti-inflammatories (NSAIDs) and ACE inhibitors (see section on Interactions for additional information). Taking potassium supplements, at any age, should only be done under the guidance of a healthcare provider.


Because of the potential for side effects and interactions with medications, dietary supplements should be taken only under the supervision of a knowledgeable healthcare provider. In the case of potassium, this is particularly important in the elderly.

Diarrhea and nausea are two common side effects from potassium supplements. Other potential adverse effects include muscle weakness, slowed heart rate, and abnormal heart rhythm.

Excessive amounts of the herb licorice (not licorice candy) and caffeine-containing herbs (such as cola nut, guarana, and possible green and black tea) can lead to loss of potassium.

Potassium must not be used by people with hyperkalemia.



Possible Interactions
If you are currently being treated with any of the following medications, you should not use potassium without first talking to your healthcare provider.

Potassium levels may be increased by the following medications:

Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs; such as ibuprofen, piroxicam, and sulindac): This interaction is particularly likely to occur in people with decreased kidney function.
ACE inhibitors (such as captopril, enalapril, and lisinopril): This interaction is particularly likely to occur in people who are taking NSAIDs, potassium-sparing diuretics (such as spironolactone, triamterene, or amiloride), or salt substitutes along with the ACE inhibitor. A rise in potassium from ACE inhibitors may also be more likely in people with decreased kidney function and diabetes.
Heparin (used for blood clots)
Cyclosporine (used following a transplant to suppress the immune system)
Trimethoprim (an antibiotic)
Beta-blockers (such as metoprolol and propranolol that are used to treat high blood pressure)
Potassium levels may be decreased by the following medications:

Thiazide diuretics (such as hydrochlorothiazide)
Loop diuretics (such as furosemide and bumetanide)
Corticosteroids
Amphotericin B
Antacids
Insulin
Theophylline (used for asthma)
Laxatives

Other potential interactions include:

Digoxin : Low blood levels of potassium increase the likelihood of toxic effects from digoxin, a medication used to treat abnormal heart rhythms. Normal levels of potassium should be maintained during digoxin treatment which will be measured and directed by the healthcare provider.


Potassium balance: The balance between too much potassium and, far more often today, too little potassium. Adults should consume at least 4.7 grams of potassium per day to lower blood pressure, blunt the effects of salt, and reduce the risk of kidney stones and bone loss, according to a report in 2004 by the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences. However, most American women 31 to 50 years old consume no more than half of the recommended amount of potassium, and men's intake is only moderately higher.

The Institute of Medicine found no evidence of chronic excess intakes of potassium in apparently health individuals and therefore established no upper limit (UL) for potassium. As the report noted, humans evolved from ancestors who habitually consumed large amounts of uncultivated plant foods, which provided substantial amounts of potassium. In this setting, the human kidney developed a highly efficient capacity to excrete excess potassium.

greetings,
Corrij
Those who do not have enough time for good health,

will not have good health for enough time.

diane1
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Berichtdoor diane1 » Di Nov 04, 2008 1:07 am

Hi,
Ok, Thanks for the complete potassium story. It is good to know that, at least, taking this large amount of supplement shouldn't be doing me any harm. We'll just have to solve the mystery of why my blood levels don't go up, despite taking so much.

Diane


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